Hey Rory - I would love to see the Poll changed to offer a third option: “Release a collaborative version” (and give $1 to Scott Dressburgh for every one sold 😎). Just a thought.
I enjoyed reading this article and as Sayan noted, the storytelling style helped to keep track of the unfolding layers.
I think Scott Dressburgh comment speaks volumes and given that this simple old Christmas cracker of a magic trick has been dressed up more times than a Macy’s window display manikin, I can well believe a version of it using receipts is far older than anyone probably knows.
Of course, I get that real money and egos are involved but perhaps those involved can take a lesson from Scott attitude to learning of this saga. Neither party arguing have a leg to stand on given, presumably, that the concept was included in Scott Dressburgh shared (and I have no reason to believe otherwise).
Instead of holding this lose-lose tug of war over said soggy cracker, I cannot be the only person left wondering what might have come from minds of the creative people involved if they put aside their past and instead put their collective heads together. I’d bet a better version would be outcome with more variations, more gimmicks, and (even) more valuable instructions. Heck, they might of even justified a slightly higher price and could share the spoils of their creativity as us, the hobbyist magicians, get more bang for out bucks, quids, and euros.
Who knows it might of led to a new partnership or at least some healing for all concerned.
All this anger can’t be good for anyone’s blood pressure and after losing Scott Alexander, one of Magic’s brightest stars, earlier this week I think we could all benefit from seeing less Red and seeing more Love this Valentine’s month in the magic community.
Then again, I still believe in Real Magic, Santa Clause, and old fashioned gentlemanly behaviors... so WTH do I know.
This was an excellent summary and saved me from having to read the entire thread at The Magic Cafe! Thanks, Rory.
I was an early subscriber of Real Secrets, and I remember this release. Some of the tricks were great, but most were disappointing rehashes of ancient principles. I think this release falls into the latter category and doesn't warrant this level of drama! The collective behaviour of Craig Petty, Murphy's Magic Supplies and Michael Weber is embarrassing. It almost makes me ashamed to call myself a magician!
It would have been almost impossible for Craig to know about "Age Receipts" because Michael Weber insisted the tricks remain exclusive to members. If I remember correctly, to become a member of Real Secrets, you had to agree not to share any of the tricks with magicians who were non-members (or publish variations). I never liked this aspect of the club, but I complied with Michael's wishes. Magic is an art form that relies on magicians sharing secrets, with an understanding that we all stand on the shoulders of giants, of course. I find it odd when a magician puts heavy restrictions on a release. If you don't want other magicians to perform your trick, don't release it!
However, once Craig was aware of the existence of "Age Receipts", he should have asked Murphy's to pull the release. Even though I believe this is a case of independent creation, this is the right thing to do. Regardless of Craig's actions, Murphy's should have pulled the trick anyway. If you make money from magic creators, you should treat them with more respect.
It is also very uncool to run a sock puppet account on The Magic Cafe. Despite the drama, it is a precious resource, and I enjoy making (positive) contributions to the site. Unfortunately, the actions of a vocal minority often ruin helpful discussion threads. It is hard to defend yourself against accusations of bullying when you engage in this kind of behaviour in a public forum. I've long respected Michael for his contributions to magic and mentalism. Unfortunately, this behaviour reflects poorly on his character and considerably diminishes his standing in the magic community.
Just when we thought last week’s article was the peak of controversy a few receipts found in the bottom of a shopping bag takes centre stage.
I feel like had they tried to talk to each other they’d be able to work something out. It’s happened one way or the other before. The release comes out with an extra credit or they stop the release and take the financial loss, which happened the Sansminds previously with a frog card trick.
Hopefully we can get back to talk about what really matters in magic next week, like why you shouldn’t wear a white shirt on TV!?
I think the pool question needs to account for the wishes of the original publisher.
Finding out something predates you shouldn't mean jumping straight to pulling, but rather straight to reaching out to the original publisher for permission. Then IF they refuse, then you should consider pulling it.
Of course if they give you your blessing, then move right on ahead.
Yeah, well... and I know I'm late to the game. First and foremost, this is about the best summary of EDCeipt-gate to date and I'm glad I read through it. I also read through pages (and pages) on the Magic Cafe. It's all very sad, and we all should do better than this.
After unpacking everything, I would have to say that I'd come down on Petty's side with this one. I think you may have minimized the threat aspect of Weber's post when he 'hoped' Criag didn't have a repeat of Red. You don't have to be a mentalist (or know very much about Petty) to know that that is a very dark chapter in the life of Craig Petty. That comment was meant to drive a dagger into Craig Petty's heart, plain and simple. Besides, creative reuse is 99.9% of what we buy in magic these days.
In spite of the ad copy, less than an nth of a percent of what we buy at a magic shop (or is written in a magic book) is truly groundbreaking or new. Most 'new' effects are tiny variations of on very old principles, a new presentation of an old effect, or the application of an old method to a different medium (lets do it with cards; no! Zener cards; no! business cards; no! Tarot Cards; no! a book test; no! lottery tickets; no! receipts... yeah, that's the ticket... a woman I met; no, a friend; no, my fiancé; no, my wife Morgan Fairchild... whom I've seen naked....)
That doesn't mean that any of these things are valueless. On the one hand, you probably don't need yet another brand-spanking-new, ultimate OOTW or Triumph presentation. But then a guy like Bannon comes up with a new smoking version with his Play it Straight Triumph, then Joshua Jay does a cool variation on that reveal, then Asi Wind comes out with a jaw-dropping double straight triumph... and I'm sure we're not done.
EDCeipt is not my thing, so I don't have it. However, the value in the Petty project is the thought he put behind it and the amassed 6 hour video that alone, without any gimmicks, is probably worth the $$ charged. Petty never pretended that he invented something brand new. As to using receipts, Scott Dressburgh apparently agrees with King Solomon about nothing being new under the sun here....
And as long as we are going biblical, I want to make sure that 'WWWD' doesn't suffer from a loss of context on the other side of the pond. It is a riff on 'WWJD' or 'What Would Jesus Do,' which can be found on lanyards, bumper magnets, T-shirts, tatoos, etc. by devout Christians to remind themselves (and others) to do the right thing. It's one thing if others might say or post 'WWWD.' It would evince a frightening amount of arrogance for Weber to promote that initialism on his Twitter account or elsewhere.... I hope that really isn't the case.
Nothing much, really enjoyed reading this article. The storytelling part, essentially unfolding one aspects at a time with chapters.
But, I feel there is something wrong with the poll. I read the entire story from my mail box(Android phone) and while clicking on the poll section it redirected me to the website. It seems the vote automatically went for the first option, which I didn't mean to provide. Now I am unable to change. I feel many may have faced similar experience, just highlighting it here as it might change the outcome of the poll drastically.
I'm on Craig's side in this but I just heard word from someone on the Cafe staff that a lot of Craigs supporter's share an IP address. I'm trying to coerce names out of him. I noticed sileeni and brandonp seem to post within minutes of each other. And sileeni and Craig Petty's posting has gone through the same arc. Both taking a break for most of 2016. Just a coincidence, surely! 😆
Hey Rory - I would love to see the Poll changed to offer a third option: “Release a collaborative version” (and give $1 to Scott Dressburgh for every one sold 😎). Just a thought.
I enjoyed reading this article and as Sayan noted, the storytelling style helped to keep track of the unfolding layers.
I think Scott Dressburgh comment speaks volumes and given that this simple old Christmas cracker of a magic trick has been dressed up more times than a Macy’s window display manikin, I can well believe a version of it using receipts is far older than anyone probably knows.
Of course, I get that real money and egos are involved but perhaps those involved can take a lesson from Scott attitude to learning of this saga. Neither party arguing have a leg to stand on given, presumably, that the concept was included in Scott Dressburgh shared (and I have no reason to believe otherwise).
Instead of holding this lose-lose tug of war over said soggy cracker, I cannot be the only person left wondering what might have come from minds of the creative people involved if they put aside their past and instead put their collective heads together. I’d bet a better version would be outcome with more variations, more gimmicks, and (even) more valuable instructions. Heck, they might of even justified a slightly higher price and could share the spoils of their creativity as us, the hobbyist magicians, get more bang for out bucks, quids, and euros.
Who knows it might of led to a new partnership or at least some healing for all concerned.
All this anger can’t be good for anyone’s blood pressure and after losing Scott Alexander, one of Magic’s brightest stars, earlier this week I think we could all benefit from seeing less Red and seeing more Love this Valentine’s month in the magic community.
Then again, I still believe in Real Magic, Santa Clause, and old fashioned gentlemanly behaviors... so WTH do I know.
This was an excellent summary and saved me from having to read the entire thread at The Magic Cafe! Thanks, Rory.
I was an early subscriber of Real Secrets, and I remember this release. Some of the tricks were great, but most were disappointing rehashes of ancient principles. I think this release falls into the latter category and doesn't warrant this level of drama! The collective behaviour of Craig Petty, Murphy's Magic Supplies and Michael Weber is embarrassing. It almost makes me ashamed to call myself a magician!
It would have been almost impossible for Craig to know about "Age Receipts" because Michael Weber insisted the tricks remain exclusive to members. If I remember correctly, to become a member of Real Secrets, you had to agree not to share any of the tricks with magicians who were non-members (or publish variations). I never liked this aspect of the club, but I complied with Michael's wishes. Magic is an art form that relies on magicians sharing secrets, with an understanding that we all stand on the shoulders of giants, of course. I find it odd when a magician puts heavy restrictions on a release. If you don't want other magicians to perform your trick, don't release it!
However, once Craig was aware of the existence of "Age Receipts", he should have asked Murphy's to pull the release. Even though I believe this is a case of independent creation, this is the right thing to do. Regardless of Craig's actions, Murphy's should have pulled the trick anyway. If you make money from magic creators, you should treat them with more respect.
It is also very uncool to run a sock puppet account on The Magic Cafe. Despite the drama, it is a precious resource, and I enjoy making (positive) contributions to the site. Unfortunately, the actions of a vocal minority often ruin helpful discussion threads. It is hard to defend yourself against accusations of bullying when you engage in this kind of behaviour in a public forum. I've long respected Michael for his contributions to magic and mentalism. Unfortunately, this behaviour reflects poorly on his character and considerably diminishes his standing in the magic community.
Marty
Just when we thought last week’s article was the peak of controversy a few receipts found in the bottom of a shopping bag takes centre stage.
I feel like had they tried to talk to each other they’d be able to work something out. It’s happened one way or the other before. The release comes out with an extra credit or they stop the release and take the financial loss, which happened the Sansminds previously with a frog card trick.
Hopefully we can get back to talk about what really matters in magic next week, like why you shouldn’t wear a white shirt on TV!?
Great read.
I think the pool question needs to account for the wishes of the original publisher.
Finding out something predates you shouldn't mean jumping straight to pulling, but rather straight to reaching out to the original publisher for permission. Then IF they refuse, then you should consider pulling it.
Of course if they give you your blessing, then move right on ahead.
Yeah, well... and I know I'm late to the game. First and foremost, this is about the best summary of EDCeipt-gate to date and I'm glad I read through it. I also read through pages (and pages) on the Magic Cafe. It's all very sad, and we all should do better than this.
After unpacking everything, I would have to say that I'd come down on Petty's side with this one. I think you may have minimized the threat aspect of Weber's post when he 'hoped' Criag didn't have a repeat of Red. You don't have to be a mentalist (or know very much about Petty) to know that that is a very dark chapter in the life of Craig Petty. That comment was meant to drive a dagger into Craig Petty's heart, plain and simple. Besides, creative reuse is 99.9% of what we buy in magic these days.
In spite of the ad copy, less than an nth of a percent of what we buy at a magic shop (or is written in a magic book) is truly groundbreaking or new. Most 'new' effects are tiny variations of on very old principles, a new presentation of an old effect, or the application of an old method to a different medium (lets do it with cards; no! Zener cards; no! business cards; no! Tarot Cards; no! a book test; no! lottery tickets; no! receipts... yeah, that's the ticket... a woman I met; no, a friend; no, my fiancé; no, my wife Morgan Fairchild... whom I've seen naked....)
That doesn't mean that any of these things are valueless. On the one hand, you probably don't need yet another brand-spanking-new, ultimate OOTW or Triumph presentation. But then a guy like Bannon comes up with a new smoking version with his Play it Straight Triumph, then Joshua Jay does a cool variation on that reveal, then Asi Wind comes out with a jaw-dropping double straight triumph... and I'm sure we're not done.
EDCeipt is not my thing, so I don't have it. However, the value in the Petty project is the thought he put behind it and the amassed 6 hour video that alone, without any gimmicks, is probably worth the $$ charged. Petty never pretended that he invented something brand new. As to using receipts, Scott Dressburgh apparently agrees with King Solomon about nothing being new under the sun here....
And as long as we are going biblical, I want to make sure that 'WWWD' doesn't suffer from a loss of context on the other side of the pond. It is a riff on 'WWJD' or 'What Would Jesus Do,' which can be found on lanyards, bumper magnets, T-shirts, tatoos, etc. by devout Christians to remind themselves (and others) to do the right thing. It's one thing if others might say or post 'WWWD.' It would evince a frightening amount of arrogance for Weber to promote that initialism on his Twitter account or elsewhere.... I hope that really isn't the case.
A great read, thank you.
Nothing much, really enjoyed reading this article. The storytelling part, essentially unfolding one aspects at a time with chapters.
But, I feel there is something wrong with the poll. I read the entire story from my mail box(Android phone) and while clicking on the poll section it redirected me to the website. It seems the vote automatically went for the first option, which I didn't mean to provide. Now I am unable to change. I feel many may have faced similar experience, just highlighting it here as it might change the outcome of the poll drastically.
Such a great, dramatic, magical read. I hope there is some resolution at some point.
I'm on Craig's side in this but I just heard word from someone on the Cafe staff that a lot of Craigs supporter's share an IP address. I'm trying to coerce names out of him. I noticed sileeni and brandonp seem to post within minutes of each other. And sileeni and Craig Petty's posting has gone through the same arc. Both taking a break for most of 2016. Just a coincidence, surely! 😆